|
Find answers to Frequently Asked Questions for First Generation Firebirds that have been asked on First Generation Firebird-L mailing list. Special thanks needs to be given to all the Firebird-L owners that took the time to respond to other subscribers questions. These pages are continuously updated as new information is posted on the mailing list.
|
| Q: | Document Summary |
| What are all the possible documents I can use to research my Firebird? | |
| A: |
For those "connoisseurs" of originality, codes and numbers, here is an
overview of the documentation associated with the '67-'69 Firebirds.
DEALER ORDER/TRIM TAG When a Dealer ordered a car, an Order number was created and routed to the Assembly Plant. At this point, the Scheduling Dept. sorted the information for sequencing and established a Build Sequence & Build Date. A VIN and TRIM TAG are generated during this phase. Fisher Body is where the car was 'born' meaning, the Trim Tag Data is used to define the basics (model, color, trim, glass, major power options affecting the Body in White 'shell'). The Trim Tag Date Code was the Month and Week that the Body Shell was Assembled. The date that the car rolled off the Final Assembly Line could have been as much as a week or more later in some cases. Fisher Body then transfers the painted Body to the Final Assembly Plant. CHASSIS BROADCAST SHEET One of the forms of 'instructions' for building the 1st Generation Firebirds was a Broadcast Sheet. This 'electronically' generated Form was attached to the car either in the Fisher Body facility or upon arriving at Final Assembly. There were (2) different types of Broadcast Sheets used; the first being a "Chassis Broadcast Copy". This sheet contained various 'codes' related to the Chassis of the car such as specific Engine, Trans, Axle as well as sub-components like Belts, Pulleys, Hoses. Brakes, Steering, Suspension, Radiator details were also on this sheet. This is the sheet that allowed the Operator to pull the right parts for that specific car as well as final assemble the engine down the last item like the Air Cleaner. Just prior to securing the Fuel Tank to the Trunk Pan, an Operator would sometimes place the Chassis Broadcast Sheet onto the Tank leaving it there for a lucky owner to find 30yrs later. These are very rare to find in '67-'69 Firebirds. BODY BROADCAST SHEET Once the car left the Chassis area, it received another Broadcast Sheet, this being the "Body Broadcast Copy". This was used within the Trim and Final area of the Assembly Plant and affected most everything else except the Chassis items. Things like... Console, Radio, Seats, Emblems, wiring, options, etc. Quite often, the Operator installing the Rear Seat would place a Copy of the Body Broadcast Sheet within the springs of the Seat Cushion. Sheets have also been found under the carpet, sound deadener and in the Bucket Seats. Many Codes were duplicated on both the Chassis and Body Broadcast Sheets since some components had related operations in another area of the Assembly Plant. For example, the Chassis Sheet has detailed instructions for the Rear Axle defining the Ratio and whether or not it was Posi (Saf-T-Track). There was also a Box on the Body Sheet for Axle however, this was likely used for the 'Saf-T-Track Warning Label' that was attached to the backside of the Deck Lid. It is likely that there were several copies of each sheet attached to various parts of the car during assembly. Most were thrown away once the instructions were no longer needed. Finding one in your car is the result of an Operator who chose to stick it in the car rather than take it to the trash can. Finding a Broadcast Sheet in your car or having one available during a possible purchase does allow one to 'document' the essentials of a car on the spot w/o paying or waiting for the Billing History paperwork. So far, no official PMD document has been discovered that explains anything about the Broadcast Sheets. BILLING HISTORY This document was used to track a vehicle and it's cost's from the Plant to the Final Destination. All the essential information is on the Billing History from Key Codes to Engine Unit Number, Options, Drivetrain equipment and Dealer Codes. The Option/Equipment Codes were based on Sales Code Numbers and are easily decoded. Also included was the Invoice Date which is closer to the actual date the car left Final Assembly than the firewall Trim Tag since the Invoice was not created until the car was completely built. These files were saved on Microfiche and made available to the public in the mid-80's for the purpose of documenting your car. Back then, one could simply call the 800 number, give them your VIN and they would send you a copy of the Billing History. For FREE. Then, as the Muscle Car boom created a frenzy for documentation, PMD 'gave' their files (or access to them) to a Pontiac employee (Jim Mattison) who formed his own company (Pontiac Historic Services) which added a 'Fee' for this Copying of the Microfiche Service. Without a doubt, the Billing History is probably the most important of all documents for your Firebird but the Broadcast Sheets do add a little more background to the car as does an original Window Sticker or Warranty Booklet. More detailed information about documentation will soon available on the "Generation-1" Firebird Web Site as well as through other Web Sites including Geoff Martin's. All of the above information is subject to change and correction due to the limited amount of material circulating with regard to Factory Documentation. For specific questions concerning the Billing History, contact Jim Mattison at Pontiac Historic Services (or PMD). This information is pretty much common knowledge. The codes used on the Broadcast Sheet are being deciphered all the time. |
| Q: | Identification Numbers |
| What are the identification numbers I should look fo to verify a numbers matching Firebird. | |
| A: |
The question of 'Numbers Matching' has always been a topic for debate amongst
some die-hard enthusiasts. I thought I'd share with everyone what I've
discovered.
If I've stated anything in error, please let me know. Numbers Matching
basically means the Body and all of it's components match according to VIN and
Part Numbers, Casting Numbers, Date Codes. The Engine/Trans/Axle are
considered the 'Brain' of the car and they should be the original parts that
came on the car when it rolled off the Final Line. Yes, it is possible to
rebuild a matching numbers car but that is a touchy area because it starts to
get into ethical and illegal practices.
A Numbers Correct Car is not necessarily an original Numbers Matching Car.
- VIN (VEHICLE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER) Assigned to a Body once it has been scheduled for build (Body in White) prior to Final Assembly (while at Fisher Body). This 13-Digit Number included the Division (Chevy, Pontiac, etc.), Series, Model, Year, Assy Plant, Engine (V-8 or 6cyl). The last 5-Digits were the specific Serial Number. The VIN was stamped into a metal tag riveted to the top LH side of the Dash. New for '68 was the stamping of the VIN (minus Series & Model) onto the Engine Block and onto the Manual Trans Case. This would have occurred at the Vehicle Assembly Plant just prior to (or during) installation into car. Additionally, there were 'Hidden-VINs'stamped onto various parts of the Vehicle. Generally, these were stamped onto a part of the frame, upper cowl and sometimes on the rear body section (trunk gutter). - BODY NUMBER This was the consecutive body number as assigned by Fisher Body. For '68, there were 2 Assembly Plants, LOR (for Lordstown, OH) and LOS (for Van Nuys, CA). This number was stamped onto the Firewall Trim Tag and will appear anywhere from a 2-Digit number up to a 5-Digit number. This number will also appear on the Broadcast Sheet. There is no consistent (numerically consecutive) pattern between the VIN and Body No. - ENGINE UNIT NUMBER A 6-Digit Number was stamped onto the front RH face of the Engine Block. This was a tracking number used for sequencing an Engine to a specific car. All V-8's started with a 2 while the 6-Cyl's began with a 6. This number was most likely stamped at the Engine Assy Plant prior to delivery to the Vehicle Assembly Plant. Also found on the Car Billing History Sheet and on Owner Warranty Data Plate. No consecutive connection to the VIN as this number was not unique to a specific Model. - IDENTIFICATION NUMBER Once a car was ordered and scheduled for build, an Identification Number was created and routed through to the Assembly Plant for scheduling. This 6-Digit number was entered into the Broadcast System at Fisher Body and the Final Assembly Plant. This number is found on the Broadcast Sheet and along the bottom of the Window Sticker. There is no direct sequential connection between this number and the VIN although the Identification Number is usually higher than the VIN and does climb higher as VIN does. - SEQUENCE NUMBER Found only on the Broadcast Sheet, this number was used within the Plant as assigned by the scheduling dept. Usually a 3-Digit number with no sequential connection at all to the VIN, Body Number or IDENT. Number. Perhaps assigned in batches and/or daily. - INVOICE NUMBER A 6-Digit number proceeded by a letter. Used for Billing purposes and found only on the Car Billing History. No connection to any other vehicle number. - CASTING NUMBERS/PART NUMBERS Most all parts on a car that were cast usually had a Casting Number. This was usually the part number but not always. Many times it represented an assembly. Engine Block, Heads, Intake/Exhaust Manifolds, Timing Chain Covers, Transmission, Axle Housing all had a Casting Number on them. Additionally, other parts had a Stamped Part Number and/or a Tag/Adhesive Label attached primarily for Operator I.D. during the Assembly Process. Many of the Codes found on the Broadcast Sheets could also have been used on these 'Tags/Labels' sometimes still on the part (though, most fell off within a few weeks of delivery). - DATE CODED PARTS Along with the Casting Number, many parts had a Date Code Cast or Stamped onto them. Various formats were used to denote the Date the part was cast, and/or assembled. One example is the Engine Block. "L227" represents Dec. 22 1967. Yes, the letter "I" was used in '68 despite what many magazines/books say. There was also a 'Julian Date' code used on some parts. Some Date Codes were built into the Part Number (carburetors). Other items used a unique coding system such as the Transmission, Glass, Alternator and Distributor. Parts that had a Date Code were the Engine, Cylinder Heads, Manifolds, Carb, Alternator, Starter, Transmission, Axle, Glass, Shocks, Gauge Clusters, Tachs, Clocks, Shifters, Fan Blade Assembly, Master Cylinder, Side View Mirrors, Waterpump, Distributors, Mufflers, Brake Drums, Calipers, Steering Gearbox and possibly other pieces. The thing to remember about date codes is the part should be dated before the Body (Trim Tag date). There is no firm rule on how far back the part must be dated before the body. Most agree that parts should be no more than a month or so before the car. |
| Q: | Vehicle 'Tracking' Numbers For '68 |
| What are the important numbers for my car and where are they located? | |
| A: |
VIN (Vehicle Identification Number) Assigned to a Body once it has been scheduled for build (Body in White) prior to Final Assembly (while at Fisher Body). This 13-Digit Number included the Division(Chevy, Pontiac, etc.), Series, Model, Year, Assy Plant, Engine (V-8 or 6cyl). The last 5-Digits were the specific Serial Number. The VIN was stamped into a metal tag riveted to the top LH side of the Dash. New for '68 was the stamping of the VIN (minus Series & Model) onto the Engine Block and onto the Manual Trans Case. This would have occurred at the Vehicle Assembly Plant just prior to (or during) installation into car. BODY NUMBER This was the consecutive body number as assigned by Fisher Body. For '68, there were 2 Assembly Plants, LOR (for Lordstown, OH) and LOS (for Van Nuys, CA). This number was stamped onto the Firewall Trim Tag and will appear anywhere from a 2-Digit number up to a 5-Digit number. This number will also appear on the Broadcast Sheet. There is no consistent (numerically consecutive) pattern between the VIN and Body No. ENGINE UNIT NUMBER A 6-Digit Number was stamped onto the front RH face of the Engine Block. This was a tracking number used for sequencing an Engine to a specific car. All V-8's started with a 2 while the 6-Cyl's began with a 6. This number was most likely stamped at the Engine Assy Plant prior to delivery to the Vehicle Assembly Plant. Also found on the Car Billing History Sheet and on Owner Warranty Data Plate. No consecutive connection to the VIN as this number was not unique to a specific Model. IDENTIFICATION NUMBER Once a car was ordered, an Identification Number was created and routed through to the Assembly Plant for scheduling. This 6-Digit number was entered into the Broadcast System at Fisher Body and the Final Assembly Plant. This number is found on the Broadcast Sheet and along the bottom of the Window Sticker. There is no direct sequential connection between this number and the VIN although the Identification Number is usually higher than the VIN and does climb higher as VIN does. SEQUENCE NUMBER Found only on the Broadcast Sheet, this number was used within the Plant as assigned by the scheduling dept. Usually a 3-Digit number with no sequential connection at all to the VIN, Body Number or IDENT. Number. Perhaps assigned in batches and/or daily. INVOICE NUMBER A 6-Digit number proceeded by a letter. Used for Billing purposes and found only on the Car Billing History. No connection to any other vehicle number. |
| Q: | Body Broadcast Sheet |
| What is the body broadcast copy and where can I find one for my car? Are the codes similar to the billing history? | |
| A: |
The Body Broadcast Sheet was used in the assy plant as a way for the line- worker to easily recognize which component, accessory, engine, etc. to put on each vehicle. Once the car was complete, there was no other purpose for this sheet so, it usually was not left with the car. I have found though, that MOST '68's built at the Lordstown, OH plant will have at least one (sometimes 4) full or partial B'Cast Sheets still within the car (provided that the car was never restored). Also, its not uncommon to find a Broadcast Sheet in your car for the car built BEFORE yours... Remember, to the Line-Worker, this was just a piece of paper !
Common Locations for Body Broadcast Sheet:
Let us know if you do find the Broadcast Sheet; the codes listed on it are useful in our research. Please send us a copy or we can fwd. you a 'blank- copy' to fill out & return. Also, look for a new feature on the WebSite for Broadcast Sheets...... Decoding. GENERATION-1 FIREBIRD REGISTRY FRamair@aol.com http://members.aol.com/Framair/Gen1.html |
| A: |
The Body Broadcast Sheet was coded according to supplier component codes and Fisher Body codes. The Billing History used the sales codes. The only similarities between the two would be the basics like VIN, trim/paint colors & key codes. It is true that if you decode them properly, you can determine basically the same info... engine, trans, options, wheels, etc.
The Broadcast Sheet can also provide authentication for a car. You can also use these codes to detail the components on your car. So, two different documents with two very different coding systems. Both very important in documenting a car but not the same. |
| Q: | Protecto Plate |
| What is a Protecto Plate? | |
| A: | I'm not sure if that's the right name for it but it's basically a metal credit- card type of plate that's in the owner's manual that identifies your car for when it used to be taken in for service. I guess they put it through a credit- card type machine to get an imprint of it. |
| A: | I have the Protecto-Plate for my 69 OHC6 coupe, and it is plastic. My buddy's 69 Z-28 (he bought new) has a metal plate that is imprinted in reverse, my Pontiac reads normally. His is mounted on a card of thick paper, mine is loose. I understand they were used for warranty purposes. |
| Q: | Custom Trim Option |
| I am confused that my car has the custom option trim (554) but it only has standard interior. | |
| A: |
The Custom Trim Option with custom seats for the '68 Firebird was identified on the Firewall Trim Tag as Style 22667 (conv) -or- 22637 (coupe). (22467 and 22437 were Std. Interiors). According to the sales literature, the Custom Trim Option (code 554) included the following.....
|
| A: |
The body tag series number changed to reflect the custom trim option (Code 554) and had a different number for custom interior (26) or standard interior (24):
If you have a '23' in place of the '24' or '26', we need a photo of your Firebirds body tag for research purpose. According to current research, it is believed that NO 67 or 68 Firebird Body Tags (not VIN tags) had '23' series code but instead only had '24' or '26'. Use the "report a problem or suggestion" button at the bottom of this page or email me at GeoffM1968@oakmediacreations.com. Your help will be GREATLY appreciated in this matter. Geoff |
| Q: | Dealer Codes |
| How do you decipher the dealer codes found on the build sheet and billing history? | |
| A: | The Pontiac Motor Division dealer codes and most of their meanings have been collect by the Ultimate GTO Picture Site (http://members.iquest.net/mattingly/6869goat.htm) and GENERATION-1 FIREBIRD REGISTRY. I have a mirror of the document at this link. An up to the date document will be found at Ultimate GTO Picture Site web site. |
| Q: | Fisher Body Sequence Number |
| My body tag has 111 to the left of the build date code (05C) on the top line. What does this code mean? | |
| A: | The three digit codes in this location are most likely Fisher Body Sequence Number (for production). |
| Q: | Ralley II wheel code |
| Does someone know the correct codes for Rally Rims? Specifically, I heard there was a different code for rims on drum versus disc. | |
| A: |
Check out the following WEB site: http://soli.inav.net/pontiac/wheels.html It is a fairly comprehensive page dedicated to pontiac rims and codes. |
| A: | Parts book published in 1971 says 67 used JA for disc and JC for drums 68 was JC for all. Try and figure this one out. All the parts for disc were the same for 67 and 68 so what made the difference I don't know. A-body was just as confusing. I have several sets of JA and JC wheels so I m going to measure the offset of both. You can post this info if you want to. |
| A: | Note from administrator: There is conflicting information about the codes on the '68 from differing parts books. More research is needed. If you have a car with original rims, let us know your codes and if they were with drum or disc. |
| Q: | Ralley II wheel paint codes |
| I was going through some archived digests from the Firebird L page and noticed a question regarding paint codes for Rally II's. I have a '67 convertible and was wondering the same thing. By chance did you get any answers you'd be willing to share? | |
| A: |
Yes, I did get the paint code information and I would be happy to share
it with you. I have redone my rims using these paint codes and they
are a dead-on match for the original colors. You will want to get the
paint in laquer, not enamel. The finish from the factory was not all
that shiney and the laquer finish is a perfect match.
Here are those paint codes:
Front (outer rim & spokes):
Ditzler Non-smudge Aluminum #DDL-8568
Front (center):
Ditzler Wheel Cover Charcoal #DDL-32947
Rear: Ditzler mixing formula:
#475 6 Units
#490 106 Units
#400 272 Units
#487 442 Units
#415 447 Units
#476 457 Units
#491 477 Units
#495 497 Units
#499 1000 Units
Or: Ditzler 1977 Ford Dove Gray #2847
(This color is a close match)
I used all three of these colors on my rims and compared them to a
fifth rim I left untouch. The color match is right on the money.
I also used the wheel masking kits from Year One. They made the
job of masking the wheels a whole lot easier.
You will want to to paint the back and "rim" portion of the rims first with the gray. Then spray the complete front on the rims with the non-smudge aluminum color. Allow the rims to dry for a few days before you go on to the next step. The final step is to mask off the rims were you want the non-smudge aluminum color to stay, and spray the center portion with the charcoal grey. Once you have sprayed the final coat of charcoal grey, allow the paint to set up but not completely dry. Then pull off your maskings. This will prevent the paint from lifting. |
| Q: | Date Codes |
| While comparing the date code on my '67 engine to the Fisher Body Tag, the dates are about three weeks apart. Should I be concerned my engine is not original even though it has the correct engine code (matches docs)? | |
| A: |
As for date coding, the general rule of thumb for drivetrain components
compared to Body Assy Date is anywhere from 2 weeks to 3 months.
I've seen documented cases where some components were the week
before Body Build and as distant as 3 months for things like an alternator.
Generally, 6 weeks is the usual maximum. Keep in mind that there
are no absolutes when it comes to date coding. Inventory Control 30
years ago was not like it is today. Most people will say that NEVER should
a drivetrain component be dated AFTER the Body Build Date however,
"never say never". There have been special cases where the entire engine
assy had a casting date after the Body Build Date. This could have been
the result of production shortages and/or special build orders.
Also, remember that the Fisher Body Build Date on the firewall Trim Tag is not the final assy date. This Month & Week Code denotes the week that the body shell was assembled at Fisher Body. Again, in special cases, the body shell might have been pulled or put aside from the regular production flow due to a special order or part shortages. The Final Assy Date can be found on the Billing History. Listed as the "Invoice Date", this is when the car left the final assembly line and was 'certified' to be shipped (bought-off). Once again, there could have been factors that delayed this date from being assigned to the vehicle or shipped. Part shortages, mis-builds, repairs would delay buy-off. Your Firebird body shell was scheduled and assembled during the 4th week of October 1967 (23rd - 27th). This was the basic painted shell with glass, carpet, headliner, seats, some trim. From there,. it was transferred to the Final Assy Plant (Lordstown, OH) for Final Assy. This is where the front fenders, hood, bumpers, trim and drivetrain were installed. The Invoice Date on your Billing History would tell you when the car left Final Assy. The "WK" Engine Block you have (I177) was cast on Oct. 17th 1967. From there it was sent to the Engine Assy Plant and then to the vehicle Final Assy Plant where additional components were added to it before being installed to the vehicle. One could estimate that if it was cast on the 17th (Tues.) then it was probably not assembled until the 20th or 23rd. Figure another couple of days until it arrived at Lordstown for Final Assy into the car. In this hypothetical scenario, there is a chance that this particular engine COULD have been installed into a Body built during the 4th week of Oct. 1967. Variables would be how long it sat at the foundry, shipping time, scheduling and routing through selectivity banks, etc. Often times, lower production vehicles were built according to a batch order. This would result in many of that particular model, color, engine being routed through production within the same week or period of time. This explains the Body Unit Number found on the Trim Tag and special in-plant codes found on the corner of the Trim Tag (usually found on Van Nuys or Norwood cars in late '68 or '69). Hope this helped. As always, this information is from various sources and research others or myself have done. Exceptions usually DO exist to every rule. |
| Q: | Billing History Codes |
| I just received my Billing History from PHS. How do they equate the codes on the Billing History to the other sheet which itemizes it. | |
| A: | The numbers on the Billing History you refer to are the Sales Codes which are broken down into groups (34 -thru- 80). Within each group, there are specific options. Depending on which options you have on your car, the last digit in the Sales Code will vary. Example: 34 is the group for Engine Options. If you have a Ram Air Firebird, the complete code would be 347. If it is a Sprint, 341. If you have more than one option in a group, the sales code for that group is determined by adding the specific option numbers together. Example: Group 52 includes Disc Brakes and the Custom Shifter Knob. If you have just Disc Brakes, the Sales Code would be 521. If you have the Disc Brakes and the Custom Shifter Knob, it would be 525. |
|
